Moderator: Welcome to Capitol Chat, I'm the moderator, Political Editor Brad Shannon. Our guest today is state Rep. Kathy Haigh, the Shelton Democrat who represents the 35th Legislative District, which stretches from west Thurston County to Bremerton. Haigh has been prominent this year in negotiations with Republicans and the Senate to reform the state election system. Rep. Haigh is calling in from the Capitol and may have to step in and out a bit to work with election reform legislation.

Moderator: Welcome Rep. Haigh. Please tell us briefly about your background and how you came to play such a key role on elections.

Haigh: I've been here for seven years as a legislator, and going on two-and-a-half years ago became chair of State Government committee, which deals with oversight of state government agencies and a lot of issues around privacy and information access, and also does a great deal of work on elections issues. We work closely with the Secretary of State and auditors very closely.

For years we've dealt with the federal Help America Vote Act, which was put into effect four years ago after Florida had so many problems. They gave a mandate to help standardize voting. One bill, the Help America Vote Act Cleanup Act passed last year, but a few technical things are not done, so in the end it needs quite a bit of substantive change because of the close gubernatorial election.

Another bill is the process of the Secretary of State being able to do performance audits on county elections. We did this in early '90s when there was a close Legislature race. We responded by saying that the Secretary of State will run audits and report to the Legislature and recommend changes at the county level.
There was funding involved with that which dried up in the mid-'90s, so the Secretary of State said not to have him do it without the funding, so they took that authority away in '95. But now we're back to the point we think it's very important, so we've given him the funding and the authority. So hopefully whatever changes we make he'll be able to bring all counties into conformance with state standards and bring higher accountability to all those involved with the elections.

Steve, Olympia: Will we see voting machines in the next election that give a paper receipt?

Haigh: We will. Two counties have gone to all-computer voting with no papaer trail that was able to be hand-counted as in every other county, so we did pass a bill that's on its way to the governor's desk that requires a paper trail and it makes it so this year. So it's now law and these two counties are going to have to make some major changes in their elections or transition to vote-by-mail -- which is an option we've opened for any county, and that way they won't be able to spend a great deal of money updating those machine when they don't know the hardware is available.

Moderator: Does that mean Mason County can convert to all-mail voting?

Haigh: Yes, it takes affect immediately. It does not have a mandate or a certain date, but it does allow every county to go there.

Patrick, Olympia: Do you think the legislature or either party in particular is amenable to giving serious consideration to "approval voting" or its variation, "Instant Runoff Voting"? These methods offer many advantages over our present first-past-the-post plurality system and in some locals have received strong support from groups like the League of Women Voters and Common Cause. Likewise, what is the consensus in the legislature at this time on the viability of public financing of campaigns?

Haigh: We did pass the Instant-Runoff Voting bill and it did pass the Senate. The bill was narrowly written for specific elections at the local level in Clark County. However there is more and more awareness of this system and some believe that as we change everything else this will be a bigger possiblity. So we'll be watching closely at the local level in Clark County, and if other counties ask for the opportunity to use this we will, but it will be a while before everyone is ready for this. We have had demonstrations for the State Government committgee and there is a lot of interest, but we won't' be moving forward on any broad language on that issue this year.

As for public financing, there are a few members of the House like Rep. (Mark) Miloscia (D-Federal Way) who have really championed this issue. We have given him a chance to present bills the last two years and had hearings on the bills, and the public testimony on this issue is very controversial. There is a very negative response by some who testify that we would use tax dollars in any way to pay for election campaigning. The other side of the issue is that by making all those who run for office have a level playing field when it comes to funding, there would be a more pure election process. It's definitely something to think about and have more conversation with the public, but again the testimony has not been supportive, so it will take some time. I'm willing to keep the discussion going, but it hasn't taken off in Washington state yet.

Moderator: What about the moving the primary election? Secretary of State Sam Reed and county elections officials said it was their top priority, yet the Legislature never got it done. What happened and what is the chance of reviving the bill in the session’s last days? Are you leaving it for dead?

Haigh: Well, you know the House passed it and we in the House have been very supportive of the change to August, the third Tuesday in August, which moves the date forward by two weeks. Democrats and Republicans were very supportive of this change and we believe it will help the auditors do better, especially in a close race, and would expedite sending of absentee ballots. The House has been very supportive of this because it's been an issue supported for many years.

But it has run up against a stone wall in the Senate, which I think is interesting because Sen. Dave Schmidt, who argued for this bill over and over again, locked up with Republicans not to vote for the change. What happened was that in the top-two primary system initiative last year, 872, it did make a mention of the date of the primary, so when this bill came to the Senate floor, because langauge was in the initiative, they asked wither it would take a two-thirds vote to change it. And the ruling was "yes, it will take two-thirds," so now if the Senate Republicans don't want it they can lock up the issue.

We'll try to do all the other bills and over the next few days work very hard to bring people in the Senate Republicans to a yes vote on this. We think it's critical and we don't think it should be tied to any other bills and we know some in the Republican caucus support the bill.

Moderator: If it's so important to have the bill, why wouldn't the Democrats compromise and give the Republicans what they want, which is a requirement that poll site voters show a government-issue photo ID before getting a ballot? That requirement was recommended by Gov. Christine Gregoire's election task force.

Haigh: What we did in the House was to take language we had Governor's approval on -- there were several ways to ID, you can make a sworn statement in front of the poll worker and basically that vote is a provisional ballot -- and the Senate Demorcats do not even agree with that. So as of last night we asked for language understanding what our concerns are about, not letting some people vote. It's clear to us with all these things that someone not be turned away but be issued a provisional ballot.

I'm going to try to get my caucus, the House Democrats to agree to that provision and pass it back to the Senate, and that's as close as we can come. I'm working with the Senate Democrats on this language. The amendment we accepted from the Senate does include all-mail balloting and includes the technology used whereby mail-in ballots can be accoutned for and one can call and be sure their ballot was received and counted.

Claudia, Olympia: How can the Legislature even think about going to all vote-by-mail with the election fraud that has already occured? I resent the Legislature trying to tell me I can't go to my polling site andmust depend on unreliable mail. I also would like to know why you are voting for $413 million in new taxes at a time when we have so many taxes that we are chasing business out of the state. Please comment on why you are not standing up for your constituents and only vote straight Democratic party lines on all issues.

Haigh: I don't know for sure what new taxes we'll be voting for -- that's still to be seeen. As for vote-by-mail: We know that 68 percent-plus of the people in the state are already voting by mail as an ongoing absentee ballot. We have looked at the issue and we were able to look at Oregon as a model and had them come testify to the committee on the process they use. There have been a lot fewer problems in oregon than there were in Washington. So there's an interest.

If we are going to standardize the elections with 68 percent already mailing in ballots, perhaps vote-by-mail is the system we should look at. It does solve a lot of poll site problems. In fact, most of the controversial problems with the last election were with poll sites. Number one was people showing up at the wrong poll site and the other was the nunmber of provisional ballots and whether those people were allowed to vote or not.

It's also very expensive to maintain poll sites, renting the space, and the poll workers have to have more and more training as we put more restrictions and mandates around what they do. That costs more money. And then just having the people who are free to do the work a few days a year and don't have full-time jobs. And fourth, people aren't showing up at poll sites. The number showing up has been dribbling down to nothing and the inefficiency is becoming apparent. There will still be poll sites available, because of the Helping America Vote Act we will still have places for the visually impared or others to go physically in and vote or go physically in and drop off their ballots if need be.

Gordon, Olympia: The elections seem to be run by a good ol boy network with no accountability to anyone outside the administrative branch of government or the political parties. What do you recommend to gain some outside oversight of the process so that public confidence in fair elections is restored?

Haigh: I think that probably relates back to having the Secretary of State do performance auditing. Although he still may be considered an insider he is elected by the poeple and is independent of the county personnel, so if the state audior can do performance auditing, then so should the Secretary of State. There is a lot of oversight by the public with the canvassing board, which is always balanced between Democrats and Republicans and hired county workers. There's always room for improvement and as we begin more-active monitoring of the election process we probably will make more changes.

One person recommended video cameras at all areas where ballots are processed and that sounds like a good idea. Accountabliity, open honest elections, is what we're working towards. It's a new age and a new day and we're very open to making the necessary changes. We've made some recommendations but as we see what the problems really were over time, we'll make better recommendations in the future.

Moderator: What went well for state employees in this legislative session, and what went wrong? Why?

Haigh: I would guess the main thing that went well was to have full acceptance of agreement on their contracts. And this was the first year they were able to negotiate pay and have been given cost-of-living increases over the next two years, and I think it's being respected by both houses' budgets. What went wrong: in the move we made in civil service reform, there was reorganization and renegotiated contracts through union groups, but some people did not want to be part of the unions because they were used to working in small bargaining groups in their employement area. And there were some who were not happy with the changes, they wish the elections process around approval of final negotiations would have been carried out more broadly and that's a tough thing for some state workers.

Moderator: Do you have any information on whether non-represented employees will be treated differently on their benefits.

Haigh: The implementation of the bargaining agreement ... there may be a pushback from those who choose to stay out of the collective bargaining process. They might not have implementation of the agreement as early, so there might be a delay in pay raises for a two or three month period.

Sally, Lacey: Why would you allow the public disclosure of the intimate details of rape victims' traumatic experiences at the hands of heinious sexual offenders?

Haigh: This is a very difficult issue for the Legislature to deal with. We believe that information should be private and that victims should not have to suffer through the thought that specific info about what happened would be misused or even legitimately used in the public media. But to take that information away strikes the other side of the coin, which is access to public information being very highly respected in Washington state. Access to infomration is what keeps government honest, and finding a balance betwen the two is difficult. We will keep working this issue.

Information like names and identification is always redacted when information is gained, but sometinmes there is still enough where someone can figure out who it was. I'm not sure what the answer is. We do have a commitement from the members of my committee to work this out in the interim, and we may work out some more legislation next year. But we will work with all parties who montior this information, like cirminal justice and corrections, and those who use the information, like the media and lawyers, and we'll also communicate with victims. It's complicated and difficult and we need to get all parties in the room to discuss.

Pete, Tacoma: I am highly concerned about the WASL testing. How can a 10th grade student who can't pass the 10th grade WASL, graduate?

Haigh: This has been a pretty in-depth discussion for several years in the Legislature. We believe testing is the right thing to do and we believe, and I think teachers and administrators agree, that the testing we have done to date has made a huge difference and helped to focus curriculum and work as a guide for teachers. And it has helped bring the expertise at the state superintendent's office, more than just monitoring and oversight, to a situation where they are helping individual teachers and schools solve their problems, so it has made great change already.

But as we implement using 10rth grade WASL tests as specific measurement of the student, we aren't using it to evaluate the sytem but a student's ability and assigning that success or failure to whether or not they can graduate ... we have begun to build in alternative analysis measures. I can't tell you what they are but they recognize why some students can't take a written test well, like in the case of dyslexia. I know students have many ways they learn and there are many ways to demostrate that learning, so there will be many options and money for schools to give the extra attention to those students. They can have multiple retakes and alternative assessments will be there and state Board of Education and superintendent will work very quickly to set standards for those alternatives and let schools do the work.

Brian, Lacey: With the session almost over and doctors leaving the Puget Sound area in droves, what has the Legislature done to help lower their insurance premiums and to increase the Medicaid reimbursements to them?

Haigh: Medicaid reimbursements we don't have as much control as we would like because it's been cut in a huge way at the federal level and they should be held accountable for that. We have passed some bills that deal with several issues around the cost of health care and specifically getting to the point where a doctor, if he does have a problem, that people don't sue for exorbinant amounts of money. The bills we've passed have been patient-centered: how do we hold doctors accountable but give the patients options when problems come up?

Those bills don't specify the payout from doctors to patients that have been harmed, but we have made several steps along the way that should help, even the doctors apologizing, which the insurance companies had kept them from doing. something as simple as that can make a big difference.

Kevin, Lacey: Why is the state legislature continually voting against the wishes of the people? We just voted down a gas tax last election, now the legislature wants an even bigger increase. We want more transparancy in government, yet the Senate voted to exempt themselves from public disclosure laws. We want less regulations, yet both houses passed an extreme vehicle emissions law that will have no benefit to the environment and will only harm our wallets. Then you have the gall to get angry when state initiatives are passed to overturn your ridiculous laws. Mark my words, there will be initiatives to overturn the gas tax and extra vehicle license fees if they are passed. It's time for a wake up call to government. Remember, you work for us.

Haigh: You know, representative government is the system we have in place. We don't all agree. When we get here we do things we can find a majority on and we don't do things we can't. That's how the system works -- everyone doesn't get their way. But out of all he said, I don't get mad about initiatives passed by the people, I listen to people and I respect their opinion. I try to represent them as well as I can, but on the other hand, by state law, an inititative can be changed, either by two-thirds vote in the first two years or by simple majority after that. That's because time changes and initiatives aren't always flexible, well-written, or functional. I respect differences of opinion, even his.

As for the gas tax, since the motor vehicle excise tax went away, gas tax is the major source we have to get our transportation programs done. I think transportation is one of the major reasons to have government in the first palce. We will consider what projects I can get in my district: making Highway 3 more safe, an overpass at the Lynch Road exit so that we're not killing people there. If we can put a northbound ramp on Highway 3 to 101, I have to vote for a gas tax because it's hard for me to demand that these things get done without paying for them.

Moderator: As the House transportation tax package now sits, would you vote for it?

Haigh: The last I saw of it, and it's been a while, I will vote for it.

Jim, Shelton: What leads you to believe that your support of the gay rights bill is consistent with the desires and values of the 35th district voters?

Haigh: Because I have heard from many people in the 35th district, received letters, flowers -- there are many people who may not be gay but have family and firends who may be gay, and they understand we should judge by people's actions in public. And everyone has rights -- the human rights commission looks at that issue, whether you're black, female, old, young or gay, I believe those issues around where you live and work. There should b no prejudice there and I support these decisions and I know I am supported by many in my district.

Jean Paul, Olympia: There is such a negative environment for small business in this state. For example, there is a state B&O tax that must be paid whether the small business is making money or not. As well, the minimum wage in this state is the highest in the nation. Because of this, small businesses are choosing not to open or are going bankrupt. What are you doing to help correct this?

Haigh: As a small business owner myself for many years, there are several things I;ve worked with. I can't give specific bills off the top of my head this year -- I don't have my list, I would have to research -- there are not as many as I would like, but in my own committee we've looked at the rules that have an impact on small business in general. That those rules when written have a clearly defined impact.

We have a subcommittee of people who are in business and can have a good idea of the impact of the rules and can work with that committee to make sure rules are handled well and understand the impact. The B&O taxes are a huge issue. The Republicans reduced the tax in the early- to mid-'90s. It's an onerous tax for those struggling to survive; I would prefer we moved to an income tax on business, but I know business isn't ready to go there. It seems to me that some discussion should go for personal income too but we don't seeem ready to go there in this state.

Jack, Shelton: Greetings, What is your stand on Substitute House Bill 1495 which is designed to better educate our populace concerning the tribal history of our Native Americans?

Haigh: I am supportive of that bill. There needs to be funding put with it and there is some work being done to make sure that happens. This bill is still moving forward. This state has a rich tribal history that isn't included in (text)books being published in Texas. If we can build in history instruction, we can see and know what went on around us, it's a great thing, but there needs to be funding to make it happen.

Mike, Olympia: When are you returning to play trombone in the Johnny Lewis band?

Haigh: (Laughs). When I get a little more time in my schedule and to practice, I'll think about it.

Moderator: Thanks very much for your time, Rep. Haigh.